HH: Only because he felt like doing me a favor, we finally found Frank Gaffney. Frank Gaffney, the president of the Center For Security Policy, www.securefreedom.org, has been boycotting our show. But he realizes in times like these, with Egypt on the edge, with the ultimatum delivered and Morsi announcing just an hour ago that he’s not going to comply with it, that he even has to put down the golf clubs and come and talk to me about the world. And so Frank, thank you for sacrificing your Tuesday afternoon golf game to join us.
FG: It’s Champagne Frank. It was a flute, not a golf club I had to put down, but I’m happy to help you in any time, even weekly, perhaps.
HH: We are living through a moment of extraordinary opportunity for freedom in Egypt, or it could go really badly the other way. What do you think is going on there?
FG: Well, as we have seen from the first in this Muslim Brotherhood takeover, what matters is not the will of lots of people. And I think there clearly are in Egypt today, as there were back with Hosni Mubarak was brought down, lots of people who want to live in a civilized, modernizing, reasonably Western society. And those people, unfortunately, don’t have the three qualities that got them in the fix they’re in today. They’re not organized, they’re not disciplined, and they’re not generally ruthless. And the Muslim Brotherhood is all those things, and that’s why they took over, and that’s why they will almost certainly continue to run the place, especially as they apparently will enjoy the continuing support of the President of the United States.
HH: We’re going to come to that, because it is remarkable that he is not calling on Morsi to step down, even as the Morsi government falls apart, and there are millions and millions of people are in the street demanding their freedom back. But I wanted to take a couple of segments with you, Frank, in all seriousness. You called this. You’ve been talking about the Brotherhood for as long as we’ve been doing this show, back to 9/11, before 9/11, and everything you have told people about the Brotherhood has come true. And it’s all in Lawrence Wright’s book, The Looming Tower, so people can go read it at length. It’s all in your epic series on the Brotherhood, available online. First of all, where can people find that series?
HH: www.muslimbrotherhoodinamerica.com. And so walk people through, we’ve got new stations every single week sometimes, and people may not know what is really going on in Egypt. They’re watching Trayvon Martin. I can’t get over this. The future of Israel, and thus of the West, and of the world, depends on what happens in Egypt, and we are watching the Trayvon Martin trial 24/7 as opposed to what goes on there. So walk people through what the Brotherhood believes, where they came from, and what their objective is.
FG: It’s really not that complicated, Hugh. This is a group that started in 1928 in Egypt with the express purpose of imposing Shariah, their repressive, totalitarian doctrine, over the entire world, Muslim and non-Muslim alike. And they want to recreate what they call the caliphate to rule according to Shariah. That has been their objective from the get-go, it is their objective today. And what they have figured out over the years when they were alternatively accommodated for a while, and suppressed for much of the time, is they need to be technically agile. They need to use not simply violent jihadist techniques, which are the preferred method of imposing Shariah, as we’ve seen in lots of places around the world, but what they call civilization jihadist techniques, which is, by the way, what they’ve not only used to bring themselves to power in Egypt when the opportunity finally presented itself, but as we talk about in our course, did I mention it’s www.muslimbrotherhoodinamerica.com? What we talk about in our course is they’re using civilization jihadist techniques, these Muslim Brotherhood folks, in America, and indeed elsewhere in the civilized Western world. And what is so alarming about this is I believe, Hugh, and I think that history will bear me out on this, you were kind enough to refer to my past track record. Well, I’m making a big prediction here. I believe history will bear out that we are, as a government under President Obama, racing toward Sharia to the hilt now, because this government is not only run by a guy who’s deeply sympathetic to them, in the president himself, but has been deeply penetrated by Muslim Brotherhood operatives for years. And this is just one manifestation of it, what’s happening in Egypt and our alignment with the Muslim Brotherhood there.
HH: Now I’ve got to talk about how they operated in Egypt. After the demonstrations against Mubarak, the Brotherhood said don’t worry about us, we’re not going to run for president. Then they ran for president. They lied. Then after they won the presidency, they said don’t worry, we’re not going to jam a constitution through. Then they jammed a constitution through. They lied. You know, Morsi gave a speech an hour and fifteen minutes ago. To me, it does not matter what he says. They never do what they say they’re going to do, Frank. They are, in many respects, deeply reminiscent of the old Soviet-style operations. You can never believe them when they say A.
FG: Well, I think what you can do, and what you must do, is you can believe them when they say things intended for their own consumption. And one of the most important documents that came out of the Holy Land Foundation trial back in 2008, down in Dallas, Texas, Hugh, was a strategic plan of the Muslim Brotherhood in America, again, not meant for our consumption, but meant for the mother ship back in Egypt, the leadership. And what it reported very, very directly was they will use lying, they will use a subversion, they will use seditious civilization jihadist techniques wherever necessary to advance their goal. So they’ll tell the truth to each other, but you can count on it, they will lie to us, and that’s what they’ve been doing. And unfortunately, because we’ve not been paying attention at all as a country, let alone as a government to this civilization jihadist phenomenon, we’ve been accommodating it. We’ve been empowering it. We’ve been enabling it, and not just in Egypt, but across North Africa, and increasingly in other parts of the Middle East. And I’m sorry to say, here in the United States as well.
HH: Now I have to say, one of the interesting dramas that will unfold over the next many days is whether or not they fight in Egypt to hold onto power, whether they resort to violence. And when we come back from break, we’ll talk about that. But what is your prediction, Frank Gaffney, for the next, it won’t be 24 or 72 hours. It’ll be this time next week before we know what’s really happening there. But what do you think?
FG: You want me tell you now or after the break?
HH: Give us a quick preview.
FG: There will be blood.
HH: Yeah, I mean a lot of it, probably.
FG: I’m afraid.
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HH: As millions of people in Egypt listen to a combative President Morsi over a national broadcast, the deadline nears, his government’s falling apart, and the President of the United States is, we don’t know what he’s doing. He’s in Africa issuing pabulum statements, Frank Gaffney. What do you make of the President once again missing out on the chance to keep a country free?
FG: Well, I don’t know it’s a case of keeping it free. I think it’s a case of hoping and helping it to become free. Hugh, what we do know about what the President is doing in Africa is he’s calling Mohammed Morsi, and he’s telling him that we stand with him as the ‘elected’ leader of Egypt. And I get that. I mean, that’s kind of the obvious thing to do, especially since you helped him become the elected leader in any number of ways, including training his people in how to run in that old Chicago way, elections, and also sending them money, and giving them their rise, their prospective leadership the blessing of the United States government at a time when it might have made the difference, particularly to the Egyptian military if they knew that we were not in favor, as we have historically not been in favor of the coming to power of people who are sworn to our destruction. And to the extent that that’s what President Obama did back when Morsi was first running and lying, as you said earlier about what his intentions were. President Obama is today, take it to the bank, signaling to President Morsi of Egypt, and to the military of Egypt, and to the opposition of Egypt, that the United States government stands with the Muslim Brotherhood. And that’s why you see his pictures in a lot of these demonstrations with the people who seek freedom, who I think authentically don’t want to live under this repressive Shariah code, are blaming the United States for being part of their problem at the moment.
HH: Now Frank Gaffney, one of the dumbest things I’ve seen written in the last few days was from a Brookings Institute scholar, I’ll use that phrase loosely, taunting on Twitter, “I guess the demonstrations are going to set back the takeover of America by Shariah.” And I thought to myself, this is such a classic leftist head-in-the-sand approach. They really don’t yet understand the Brotherhood. They give the Brotherhood more passes than President Obama gets passes from the American media. And have you seen it begin to turn anywhere? Have you seen any MSM outlet begin to look at what is really driving these protests, which is the people of Egypt know, and you can talk to a Copt, obviously, but you can talk to an average lefty, too. They’re losing it all if they don’t get rid of the Brotherhood from power.
FG: The left, Hugh, has been deeply in bed with the Brotherhood and other Islamists, both in this country, notably in Europe, and in terms of at least their sympathies, with them in the Middle East and elsewhere. And as a result, I don’t see much evidence that the pass, as you say they’ve been given, is coming to an end. But it’s got to be getting harder for these guys, because let’s face it. Not only are the Islamists pretty hard on core constituencies of the left, like women, and homosexuals, and Jews, and artists of various kinds, and people who decide they don’t believe in God, having been Muslim before. I mean, these are people who are endangered species under Shariah. And I’ve got to believe at some point, the fact that they were working against interests by helping these characters rise to power, exercise power, become more aggressive in undermining our Constitutional rights and so on is going to cause them to say you know, maybe this isn’t such a good plan after all. But unfortunately, history suggests that they don’t generally do that until they’re put to the knife.
HH: You know, Frank Gaffney, I was talking about that with Dennis Prager when we did our Ask A Jew series on Sunday night. And Dennis, we have 30 seconds left. Dennis’ position was the left never wakes up. It just gets killed when it’s up against true fascism, theological or secular absolutism. They never wake up.
FG: That’s the historical experience, and tragically, we can’t afford for a substantial part of our population to put us all at risk of being put to the knife because they are clueless. We have got to have them wake up, and we have got to help them do it. And I thank you for doing your part.
HH: Frank Gaffney, www.muslimbrotherhoodinamerica.com, and of course, Center For Security Policy, www.securefreedom.org. Have a great 4th of July, Frank.
End of interview.