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Dr. Larry Arnn On The Trump Phenomenon As Compared To Churchill

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HH: The last radio hour of the week is the Hillsdale Dialogue. It’s April Fool’s Day, but my guest is no fool, nor am I. Dr. Larry Arnn is president of Hillsdale College. It is our last Friday afternoon together. Beginning next week, of course, I’m moving to 6-9 in the morning, often out of the Kirby Center/Hillsdale College offices in Washington, D.C. And Dr. Arnn’s actually going to have to get up early, because he’s going to have to talk to me at 8AM in the morning, and that’s actually early for a college president. They usually rise around 11, retire around 4. Isn’t that about it, Dr. Arnn?

LA: Yeah, if we were doing bankers hours, we’d have to be paid more (laughing)

HH: (laughing) I’m glad when someone doesn’t cast aside an aspersion, but embraces it.

LA: (laughing)

HH: (laughing) Hey, you know, earlier in this week, before I turn to politics and to Churchill, earlier this week I had on Frank Bruni, a guy with whom I agree on almost nothing, of the New York Times. But he wrote a column on Wednesday called College Admission Shocker. It was a satire of Stanford dropping its admission rate to 0%. And he’s also the author of the book Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be, you know, a balm to kids who don’t get into the Ivies that they wanted to go to, etc. You’re a college president. This is the season of disappointment. What do you say to kids who don’t get in where they wanted to go, especially if they wanted to go to Hillsdale?

LA: Yeah, it’s sad, isn’t it? Our applications are probably going to set a record this year. They’re still coming in, but they’re high. And so that means most people are not going to get in. And there’ll be a lot of good ones who don’t get in, and we are sorry about that. And you know, the ones who do get in are overjoyed, but that’s right, it’s touched with, it’s just like commencement. You know, the beginning and the end of college are bittersweet, because at commencement, you know, we’re not really overjoyed at commencement. We’ve gotten to know these seniors, and they’ve worked out. Why do we want them to go?

HH: Yeah, but at the beginning, this process is incredibly selective. I don’t know if you use the common app at Hillsdale, but it’s led to sort of a college mania. You’re always very direct with me on who you want to apply, and you’re always very certain about the amount of work they’re going to do, so there’s no false advertising.

LA: Right. Yeah, it, so our kids are, you know, one of the reasons we regret the ones who don’t get in is that there’s a pool of them that don’t get in that are tremendous people, and they’re dying to come and put themselves through this particular misery (laughing).

HH: (laughing)

LA: And so, you know, we want them, we want that to happen. And you can’t really make the college bigger. It’s not economic. That means there’s an opportunity for somebody if they want to take those kids, but yeah, you, the main thing, the great thing about education you ought to know is that education is chiefly done by the student. And so our application process is meant to find out two things. Are they able? And are they willing? And if they are, it will be as both those things. And they’re both, able is actually reasonably easy to judge. Willing is what you want to find out about. And you want the most willing, the ones who are just, you know, ready to stay up late nights reading Plato and physics. And if they want to do that, then they’re going to thrive here.

HH: I would never have gotten into Hillsdale College, because that physics part, that’s the part that would have deterred me.

LA: You know, I’ll tell you something. I have a retirement ambition. We have a really fantastic physics department here at Hillsdale.

HH: I know that. I know that.

LA: And one of the guys there, who was on a Nobel Prize-winning team in graduate school, is just, he’s a gentle man and a gentleman, both, and he’s a tremendous teacher. And he’s always teaching me physics, and I am almost at the point where I could explain in layman’s terms the general Theory of Relativity in a way that’s comprehensible. And so if he can do that for me, heck (laughing).

HH: I’m not sure (laughing). I’m not sure. I want to hear your explanation, and if I find it at all persuasive, then I might sit down with him.

LA: Yeah.

HH: So if he can teach you, then he can teach me. That’s going to be the test. Let me, though, move to the news of the week. We’ve got a, unfortunately, the Hillsdale Dialogue, which was about elevated and high things, it’s about the great works of Western Civilization for 3,000 years, has become mired in the day to day warfare that is the trench campaign of 2016. And the trenches moved a little bit this week. This week, we had on Governor Scott Walker, a fine man who endorsed Senator Ted Cruz, another fine man. And you’ve been to Wisconsin a time or two. You’ve got friends up there and donors up there. That’s a funny state, thought?

LA: Isn’t it, though? I mean, Governor Walker, who’s a tremendous warrior, right? His building, the Capitol, is sort of surrounded by the University of Wisconsin, and that’s not a bulwark of national conservatism. And so he’s, so yeah, it is a funny state, and Walker, and you know, I adore Walker myself. I admire him. I know him a bit. And I’ve talked to his cabinet one time up there. A former employee of mine, a great woman named Eloise Anderson, has been in his cabinet for three years now, and I really like those people, and I think they’ve got a lot of spit. And of course, it’s a very big endorsement for Cruz to get Governor Walker to endorse him.

HH: It is, and therefore, the carnival came to town as soon as that happened, and that meant that CNN arrives with the three candidates in tow. And they went out in order – John Kasich, I mean, Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Donald Trump. And I want to begin, because so much of the attention and the conversation between you and me have been about Donald Trump in the last few weeks, with a few of the things that Donald Trump said to Anderson Cooper. As you’ve been doing a comprehensive study of things Trump, here is cut number one:

AC: So in terms of federal government role, you’re saying security, but you also say health care and education should be provided by the federal government?

DT: Well, those are two of the things. Yeah, sure, they’re, I mean, there are obviously many things – housing, providing great neighborhoods and…

AC: But aren’t you against the federal government’s involvement in education? Don’t you want it to devolve to states?

DT: No, I want to go to states, absolutely. I want, right now…

AC: So that’s not part of what the federal government role should be?

DT: Oh, the federal government, but the concept of the country is the concept that we have to education within the country.

HH: Uh, what do you think, Larry Arnn?

LA: Well, that statement reminded me of Lincoln, because it’s so different (laughing).

HH: (laughing) Nice save, Duane just whispered in my ear. Caught that one before it went over the fence, did you?

LA: (laughing)

HH: (laughing)

LA: Yeah, that was not a shining moment (laughing).

HH: All right, let me give you another one, cut number two:

DT: Give me a break.

AC: But let me ask you, though…

DT: The answer is, the answer is yes. And by the way, speaking of something else, I watched Ted Cruz. His home state is not Florida. His home state is Texas. It may be Canada. But to the best of my knowledge, it’s Texas. So he made that, I was surprised you didn’t correct him, actually.

HH: And then he went on to say, cut number four:

AC: Do you continue to pledge whoever the Republican nominee is?

DT: No, I don’t anymore.

AC: You don’t?

DT: Look, no. We’ll see who it is. I mean, it’s…

AC: You won’t promise to support the Republican nominee?

DT: And he was essentially saying the same thing. Let me just tell you. He doesn’t have to support me. I have tremendous support right now from the people. I’m way over two million votes more than him. I have many, many more delegates than him, like many, many more delegates. As I said before, you know, he was talking about his great victory the night Utah, well, I won Arizona, many more delegates, many, many.

HH: Okay, so the pledge is dead, Ted Cruz is a Canadian, and the gloves are off, Larry Arnn.

LA: Yeah, it’s been so civil up to now (laughing).

HH: (laughing)

LA: It, it’s worse, now. And let me just say one thing, right? I have been deeply interested in the Trump phenomenon for a reason, and that is who is supporting him and why. And I think very much we don’t talk about that enough. We talk about he’s awful, and you know, he is up and down, let’s say. And sometimes, it’s worth remembering when he hasn’t, and in that forum, he wasn’t very good, but sometimes, he’s clear, and a couple of times, he’s been brilliant. And there are two things that he’s consistent about, and in a good way, I think. But bigger than that, what kind of guy he is and what kind of candidate he is, people are, you know, he fell a bunch in the Wisconsin poll after Walker endorsed Cruz. Cruz is up ten points in a poll that came out like the day after that.

HH: Yeah, that’s the Marquette Law School poll. It’s a very good one, yeah.

LA: And then, but you know, Trump strengthened a little bit in the national Republican poll. And so people are responding to him in ways that make his campaign extremely interesting.

HH: I had a caller this week, Adam, from Florida, a criminal defense lawyer, a Marine for four years, a National Guardsman for four additional years, very animated, very smart, very articulate, and very angry with me, because he perceived in whatever I had said some anti-Trump bias, which there aren’t. They prospect for bias, they do. They’re on the hunt for people who are not true believers, and you cannot stay Switzerland, even though you say Switzerland, Switzerland, Switzerland. I’ve got to switch to Portugal now, because they’re not buying it anymore. What, but he is sick of everything Washington. I think that Trump enthusiasm is inversely proportional to admiration for the federal government.

LA: Yeah, and I think that’s a big part of it, and I think it’s not all of it, either. Trump’s campaign has, and you know, Cruz’ campaign, too, both of those campaigns are campaigns about the national interest and the American people as a whole. And they are not playing the game of this group and that group. And so I think that that is healthy, and I think that these crossover votes that Trump are getting is extremely important.

HH: We’ll come right back with Dr. Larry Arnn. It’s the last afternoon edition of the Hillsdale Dialogue, which will continue in a brand new and improved morning form with a bleary-eyed Larry Arnn next week at 8am.

— – – – —

HH: Andrew McCarthy’s most recent Imprimis, by the way, widely circulated via Twitter, Larry Arnn, did you see that?

LA: Yeah, yeah.

HH: It was a fine speech on what the Blind Sheikh believes, and why that theology cannot be dismissed as not Islamic, and Andrew McCarthy delivered it, I don’t know when he delivered it, but Imprimis came out with it, and it’s really ricocheted around the intertubes very quickly. But we return this week to Campaign 2016. A couple of things I’ve got to cover with you. This is Donald Trump at another town hall, this time with Chris Matthews. So he’ll sit down with anyone, to his credit, and he’s talking here about abortion. It takes a minute and a half, but give it a listen.

CM: Should the woman be punished for having an abortion?

DT: Look…

CM: This is not something you can dodge.

DT: No, no.

CM: If you say abortion is a crime, or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law. Should abortion be punished?

DT: Well, people in certain parts of the Republican Party, and conservative Republicans, would say yes, they should be punished.

CM: How about you?

DT: I would say that it’s a very serious problem. And it’s a problem that we have to decide on. It’s very…

CM: But you’re for banning it.

DT: I mean, are you going to say, well, wait, are you going to say put them in jail? Is that the punishment that you’re talking about?

CM: Well, no, and I’m asking you, because you say you want to ban it. What’s that mean?

DT: Well, I would, I am against, I am pro-life, yes. I am pro-life.

CM: What is ban, how do you ban abortion? How do you actually do it?

DT: Well, you know, you’ll go back to a position like they had where people will perhaps go to illegal places.

CM: Yeah.

DT: But you have to ban it. I’m against…

CM: If you ban it and they go to somebody who flunked out of medical school…

DT: And by the way, you’re Catholic. Are you Catholic?

CM: Ye, I think…

DT: And how do you feel about the Catholic Church’s position?

CM: Well, I accept the teaching authority of my Church on moral issues.

DT: I know, but do you know their position on abortion?

CM: Yes, I do.

DT: And do you concur with that position?

CM: I concur with their moral position, but legally, to get to the question…

DT: I know, but…

CM: Here’s my problem with it.

DT: No, no, but let me ask you. But what do you say about…

CM: It’s not funny.

DT: …your Church. Yeah, it’s really not funny. What do you say about your Church? They’re very, very strong…

CM: They’re allowed, but the Church makes their moral judgment. But you running for president of the United States will be chief executive of the United States. Do you believe…

DT: No, but you’re….

CM: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or not, as a principle?

DT: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

CM: For the woman?

DT: Yeah, there has to be some form.

CM: Ten days, ten years? What?

DT: But let me just tell you, I don’t know. That, I don’t know. That, I don’t know.

CM: Why not?

DT: I don’t know, because I don’t want to…

CM: You take positions on everything else.

DT: …I frankly, I do take positions on everything else. It’s a very complicated position.

HH: Dr. Arnn, the, this betrays again first time around the block with an issue where the answer of course is if abortion isn’t prevented, one never punishes the woman, one only punishes the doctor by revoking their medical license, and a second time by fine, and a third time by imprisonment, that sort of thing. And you enhance opportunities for women to have safe pregnancies, etc. Donald Trump is not skilled at these arts, Chris Matthews, very skilled at exploiting that.

LA: Yeah, yeah, he, Chris Matthews, by the way, is the one that made what I think is a very attractive comment earlier about the debates when Trump did no soup for you to Fox News, to quote you.

HH: Yes (laughing).

LA: …that the debates reverted to the themes that dominate these debates, which was everybody talked about the government and what to do about it, and that when Trump is there, they talked more about the country.

HH: Yeah.

LA: And the flip side of that is Trump has not thought these things through deeply, so many things, right? And it’s hard to think them through. It’s partly because the government is very technical, and who wants to master that? I, for one, don’t. But this is a moral question, he’s talking about, right? And he hasn’t thought hard about that moral question. And if he did, he would know that he is not the first one to be asked that question, and pro-life, and some very smart people, have answered it, as you just indicated. And so there’s a weakness there, big weakness. And it is connected to his strength, which is he just stands up there and talks common sense very stubbornly, and even bravely, and that’s what people think will cut through all this mess. And that is naïve, because you know, the United States of America and the American Constitution was not founded by a bunch of ingénues. It was founded by a bunch of people who were extremely skilled at politics, and spent their life at it. And you need that, too. And so we’re caught between a choice between policy wonks, and I’m not condemning the other candidates, but there are a lot of people who run for office. You know, I don’t like it when the candidates say I have a detailed plan of 33 pages at my website, go here, right? And you know, has any human being gone to the website and read the plan?

HH: No. No, just to contribute money, although you’ve just done it again. You’ve got all the Steelers fans running around asking you Eugene is and what they’ve got to do with this.

LA: (laughing)

HH: And so I want to back up a little bit. Maggie Haberman was on this week. She did a 100 minute interview with Trump, along with David Sanger, on national security. And I read it all, and I remarked to her. You know, there’s a code in American language about how you talk about national security. And if you don’t know the code, you’ll sound stupid. But developers know the code when it comes to buildings. They can talk about ROI, and they can talk about where you put the refrigeration unit and return on the square foot and all the different stuff. I don’t know that code, and if I try and talk about building buildings, I’ll sound stupid. But if you try and talk about national security without the code, you’re going to sound stupid. And that, he hasn’t thought about that, either, and this is, this is a problem, isn’t it?

LA: It is. And you know, so I’m trying to shore up our Switzerland fortress, right?

HH: Yeah, okay. You should. You should, please.

LA: But let me say this about what he says. He does say a few things that are sort of automatic from him, and I think good. The key to national security is the national interest. We should attack the people who are a threat to us. We should economize, because we spend a lot of money not getting much, and lives, too. And so we should think strategically. Now he doesn’t go so far as to use the term strategically, at least not in my hearing, but those are good points. But then, you know, I mean talk to our friend, Tom Cotton, about these issues, and you get hard-headed, clear expertise.

HH: You get someone who’s been to Ranger School and to Officers’ Candidate School, and has fought in combat, and who has thought about the enemy and knows tactics versus strategy. But I’ll be you Tom Cotton doesn’t know how to build a 120 story building, my point being that the skill sets you need to run for president are developed over a long period of time, and are not easily mimicked.

LA: Yeah.

HH: I mean, they really aren’t easily picked up.

LA: That’s right. And the idea, you know, this is, let me just make more enemies for us, at least me. I’ve been arguing with the term limits movement forever and ever. And I don’t think that they’re the solution to the problem. I don’t even think, I don’t even think the problems are located in the Congress. They are located in the bureaucracy, and the Congress needs to be stronger to get its authority back. So, but the people who argue for term limits, and some of them are very sophisticated, and many are friends of mine, some just think well, you just need common, ordinary business sense to fix all of this. And that isn’t true.

HH: Yeah, I’m with you on this. I ratted, I was for the term limits, and then I ratted them out, because they have been such a disaster in California. I have yet to re-rat, to quote you quoting Churchill. I’ll be right back with Dr. Larry Arnn.

— – – – – –

HH: Ted Cruz made a statement to Anderson Cooper on Tuesday night. I have a Republican Rosetta Stone, so I knew what it meant. But most of the media passed over it like the Angel of Death on Passover, and didn’t know anything, because blood was on every door. Here’s what Ted Cruz said about John Kasich, cut number 5:

TC: Head to head, Donald has an incredibly difficult time breaking 50%.

AC: The Kasich campaign has made an effort to reach out to your campaign to strike some sort of a pact in order to defeat Donald Trump. Wouldn’t that make sense? Apparently, all the reports are so far, you’ve not responded.

TC: Well, it makes no sense at all. John Kasich has no path to win it. We are competing to win. We’re not competing to stop Trump. We’re competing to win the nomination. John Kasich went 0-27. He lost 27 states in a row.

AC: He admits, though, it’s going to go to a contested convention, and that’s where he says he can win.

TC: Look, I understand that, except that it’s against the rules for John Kasich to be on the ballot. The rules provide that in order to be even on the ballot, if no one has 1,237, you have to have won at least eight states. Now there are only two candidates who are going to meet that threshold, Donald Trump and me, and so our preferred option is win 1,237 delegates before the convention. We are working hard to do that, and I’ll mention Wisconsin is going to be critical in that. But the second option, which is entirely possible, we could get to a convention where nobody has 1,237 delegates. And we come in with a ton of delegates, Donald Trump comes in with a ton of delegates, and if that happens, then it becomes a battle for the delegates. But the only two names on the ballot are going to be Donald Trump and me. On the rules, those are the only two people that could be voted on. And I think in that situation, we’re in a very strong position to earn the 1,237 votes from the delegates who were elected by the people.

HH: Now Larry Arnn, all the armies of Switzerland run over to the other border, and we talk about Ted Cruz. What he just declared there was that Rule 40 endures. And last rites for Rule 40 started to be said by many members of the Rules Committee of the various states, because Rule 40 was invented in 2012 to keep Ron Paul off the anti-Romney ballot in 2016 when they were expecting a reelection. And it’s a bizarre rule that’s never existed before, and probably is going to be put to death. But Ted Cruz invoked it there as sort of a preliminary, I’m going to fight on the floor of Rule 40. Rule 40’s going to enter into the American political lectionary in ways that other things have – 440 or fight, or whatever that thing was.

LA: 54.

HH: 54-40 or fight, that’s it.

LA: (laughing) Yeah, well, but you know, Trump is for Rule 40, and Cruz is for Rule 40.

HH: You’re right.

LA: Maybe it will survive.

HH: Maybe it will survive. Maybe they want a cage match. So they might end up cooperating. Now this is not bad. I got a note from a supreme court justice who I cannot name, not one of the federals, but a state supreme court justice, who has been to a few state conventions in his time, and said a lot of Republicans have never been to a state convention. And a multi-ballot state convention is a fun thing if there’s not a riot in the streets.

LA: Yeah, it, that’s right. If there’s, that caveat is the one caveat.

HH: Yeah.

LA: But of course, this, you know, I’m remaining excited by the race, and not disconsolate at this stage. It, why, because I think Hillary Clinton is a weak candidate. I even think there’s a chance it might not be she. But, and I don’t think, and I don’t think it’s going to play out the way it’s played out in every election since Reagan, where you know, it comes down to three states and who can win them. Have you talked to your audience about the very interesting short story that was published in the Washington Examiner lately about the…

HH: I did, part one. I did tell them about that.

LA: You told them about that? Yeah, and that was good. That was written by a well-known novelist.

HH: (laughing)

LA: (laughing) And if you were publishing a book to say that that was what was happening, I would believe that you believed that that’s going to happen. (laughing)

HH: (laughing) Well, my least offended border of Switzerland is the one that faces Ohio. But I want to end here. Don’t you think they have to let Kasich be nominated in his home state, whether or not he gets beyond 400 delegates? Don’t you have to let the home state governor be nominated?

LA: Yeah.

HH: Yeah.

LA: But do you remember, this is this year?

HH: (laughing)

LA: (laughing) How do you know? It, Cruz doesn’t want him, you know…

HH: And neither does Trump, as you just pointed out.

LA: And so your idea of a partnership, there was, we were a little bit closer to a partnership right there between Trump and Cruz than we were between Kasich and Cruz.

HH: And nobody picked, nobody picked up on that, that what Cruz was saying is we’re going to muscle Kasich out. We’re going to rub him out in the Rules Committee, because no one’s paying attention, Larry Arnn. They want to talk about Corey Lewandowski. They don’t want to talk about the race…

LA: Yeah.

HH: …at the level of the country versus the government level that you go to often.

LA: Yeah, and you know, my advice to the, you know, I’ve got students working on some of these campaigns, and a couple of them in pretty high places. And my advice to them is, about Trump, is I realize that you’ve got to try to beat them, and Trump’s got to try to beat Cruz, right? And that’s job one, and job two through ten. But it’s also true, think for a minute. What about these people who are voting for him?

HH: Right.

LA: Some large number of whom are counted loyal to the Democratic Party…

HH: Yeah, I’ll be right back with Dr. Larry Arnn.

— – – —

HH: Next week, we switch to the mornings, because I am replacing Bill Bennett, who’s going Brit Hume on us and vanishing into semi-retirement to appear wraithlike, Scrooge-like, whenever he wants to, to haunt my dreams and Larry’s life. But that will all be good. But once a week, we’ll get together at 8am in the morning. And my question to you, Dr. Arnn, you wrote about Churchill, Churchill’s Trial. You’ve lived a life of Churchill. Churchill was not a morning man, was he?

LA: No, this’ll be a test of our friendship.

HH: (laughing)

LA: And you know, I knew about this thing, but nobody ever really asked my opinion (laughing)

HH: If, yeah, no, Churchill rose normally, rose is not the word. He waked up normally about 7, and then he did the newspapers. He read six or eight of them cover to cover. He read the Daily Worker every day. Then he did the mail. Then he had a bath. By the time he was dressed and dictating books and speeches and letters, that was 10:30 or 11:00am.

HH: When did he become a public man, around 10:30?

LA: Yeah, well, if you were, like he, he had a big house, and he had people in it visiting all the time. There’s a book out about how much money he spent on wine and cigars and stuff, but the truth is he was running a hotel.

HH: (laughing)

LA: And so you know, people brought him coffee in his bedroom in the morning, and he had his coffee, and he started his work. And then the papers, after he had looked at them, were carried, one after another, around the rooms of the guests in the house, often very important people. And they would get theirs with the articles he found most interesting clipped out. (laughing)

HH: (laughing)

LA: So he was kind of a public man there. He was the beginning of a river of coffee, newspapers and food that flowed from room to room.

HH: But you know, about Donald Trump, who we were talking earlier it has been said, that he sleeps four hours a night And one essayist in the New York Times speculated this was the source of some of his idiosyncrasies. Did Churchill sleep? I mean, how much did he sleep? If he waked at 7, as you put it, he would stay up until the late hours of the night. How much, you know, snooze time did the guy get?

LA: He made, in the Second World War, he, you know, he was in, I’m in 1944 right now in the document volumes, and they’re tragic and inspiring. And he makes an iron rule, which he has trouble holding, that he gets to bed by 1:30 at night.

HH: Wow.

LA: And that seems early. But you have to understand he was a good sleeper, and he napped every day. And Churchill took, you know, Churchill writes about this. And all of these idiosyncrasies of his were wedded to an incredible drive to get an enormous amount done. and he was good at that, and he did take care of himself.

HH: Is this why you have an innate sympathy for Trump, because of the drive?

LA: I, well, I, I just, I, I like, yeah, it, I do. I do. You know, I will, so maybe, I, I won’t leave Switzerland, but I will say…

HH: That’s not going to transcribe well what you just said there.

LA: I, yeah…right, I know.

DP: Tell me about it.

HH: (laughing)

LA: I don’t, I don’t personally, I’m not personally drawn to Donald Trump to the way he speaks, and things like that. You know, I find a lot of guys really good. You know, and so no, I’m not fond of them on that level. I do respect him a lot, and I think that he has arrested American politics, and opened up a glimmer of a new direction that’s healthy. Whether he’s the man to carry it off or not, I think we’re busy finding that out right now.

HH: I’ll tell you, I had a conversation with a national news anchor who won’t, I won’t name, because I don’t have permission. And we’re both exhausted by Trump interviews. We like them, but we’re exhausted by them. I think it’s probably as close to a modern figure as we would come to talking to a Churchill because of the energy level one enters into and has to wrestle with. And it is like wrestling. It’s not like an interview. It’s not like me talking to you. You have to wrestle him down to get an answer on what you want to talk about, as opposed to what he wants to talk about.

LA: There’s a good columnist whom I met one time in my life named James Poulos, who writes at The Week.

HH: Oh, sure. Oh, yeah.

LA: And he wrote that, he wrote a paragraph that’s wonderful. You can find it at The Week. and it’s, you know, two months old or something, that says he looks like a Soviet wrestler up there taking on those hungry and disciplined men and striking out in all directions. There’s something pretty good about that.

HH: Yeah, there is, except we didn’t ever like Soviet wrestlers. (laughing)

LA: We didn’t, did we? No (laughing).

HH: No, we didn’t. But there is also that energy level, and he’s 69. How old was Churchill when he took over command of the war?

LA: 65.

HH: 65, and so, and Hillary Clinton is 68 or 69. And Bernie Sanders is 74. And God love them all for the candle burning bright as they enter their eighth decade.

LA: Yeah, and let me just tell you a quick, little story that I, it, I cried the other day finishing the 1943-44 document volume. And Churchill is sick, and everybody’s worried about him, and they have a debate about the empire. And the dominion prime ministers are coming. And so Britain, you know, which has spent its substance in that war, and it’s very clear that they’re going to be way behind the United States and the Soviet Union when the war is over, and they talk about the empire. And Churchill gives this speech, and it just stopped the House dead and united it, because here’s what he said. He said these soldiers have come from all over the world, and nobody is making those countries send them. They are rallying to the cause of freedom. That’s what the empire represents. You see, in both world wars, Britain was made about 40% stronger by the imperial countries, and no soldier from any of those countries was ever conscripted by the British Parliament.

HH: Wow.

LA: And that, and you see, and then after he finished that, everybody said, their reactions, you know, and every time somebody is important, Churchill gives a speech, and then there’s a flood of letters and commentaries and stuff. And the reaction, left and right, socialist and conservative, and liberal in the middle, is he’s okay after all. Listen to that, see? We long for that in politics, and Trump is not giving us that. But he’s giving us something important, whatever it is.

HH: More on what it is next week in the day, early day. And we’ll see if Dr. Arnn is as fine then as he is in the afternoon. Don’t go anywhere, America.

End of interview.


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Friends and Allies of Rome