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Dr. Larry Arnn On The Sharpening Of The Rhetoric In Campaign 2016

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HH: The last radio hour of the week on the Hugh Hewitt Show is the Hillsdale Dialogue, often with Dr. Larry Arnn, president of Hillsdale College, sometimes with one of his colleagues, sometimes about the great works of Western Civilization. It seems, though, that 2016, as we’ve moved in the morning, is morphing more and more into a lookback at the week that was in this political year of extraordinary uncertainty and brash, new developments. Dr. Arnn, a great good morning to you. Two weeks in a row you’ve been up earlier than a college president has any right to see the dawn.

LA: Yeah, you know, and I haven’t been doing a very good job either of these two weeks.

HH: Well, actually, people liked last week quite a lot. And so I’m stunned by that. You’ve become kind of a Bruce Springsteen-like figure out on the college campus circuit. You show up in Portland, and hundreds and thousands of people show up. You go to Seattle, and that happens. What do you make of all this?

LA: Well, first of all, it’s nice to be around when politics is like this. Everybody is disgusted with it. So (laughing) I don’t know. You know, I think that this election is showing a great springing up of fear of what we’ve got today, and longing for what we used to have. And the college understands something about what we used to have, so people flock to it.

HH: www.hillsdale.edu is where you go to get all of the free online courses taught by Dr. Arnn and his colleagues on the Constitution, on the progressives, on economics, on Jane Austen, I believe, most recently. www.hughforhillsdale.com is where you go to get all of our Hillsdale Dialogues dating back four years on, beginning with Homer and up to the present. I want to begin with something that happened earlier this week that has nothing to do with the presidential campaign, because I need you to help my audience out. I objected to the President’s request for $1.8 billion dollars for the Zika virus. The Congress has not given it to him. So he went and he got money from the Ebola fund, and the liberals are complaining that the Congress is being unresponsive, and that Zika is a crisis. I stipulate that Zika may well be a crisis. It’s causing Microencephaly among children in South America. It appears to have a dire neurological impact on some adults. It’s a real problem. Nevertheless, the liberals who are critical of me keep sending me to a White House fact sheet that has absolutely no specificity other than Department of Health and Human Services’ $1.48 billion, the U.S. Agency for International Development, $3.35 million, the United States Department of State, $41 million. And a few paragraphs after each of these things, it adds up to $1.8 billion. Is that what Congress is intended to do, just simply write checks to the President upon the declaration of an emergency, Larry Arnn?

LA: That’s what they do today. I mean, if you just think about these continuing resolutions that they pass now, there’s no budget control in them. It’s a point that Trump makes in his campaign a lot. Where do these numbers come from? And how would anybody know? And since the numbers are contrived by the executive branch that gets the money, can’t you be afraid that it’s padded, that there’s a lot of perks in there for people, stuff like that? You know, think of Obama’s shovel-ready projects when he came in, right? He’s going to solve the 2008 financial crisis by spending a lot of money through the government. But you know, what happened, right? The answer is we just paid a lot of people who work for the government. So of course, you’ve got to be suspicious about that.

HH: Now I wanted to ask you, because you actually run an operation. You’ve got 1,500 students up there. How many faculty do you have at Hillsdale College?

LA: 150.

HH: Okay, so you’ve got 150, that’s a 10-1 ratio. And how many buildings you got up there?

LA: I don’t know. I think we might have 30 or 40.

HH: 30 or 40 buildings, and so you have like gas bills and air conditioning bills, and you’ve got to buy furniture and stuff like that, right?

LA: Yeah. Oh, sure.

HH: So when someone comes to you and says Dr. Arnn, I need a million dollars for the theater department, do you say okay?

LA: Yeah, yeah, I say what for. (laughing)

HH: (laughing)

LA: I’ll tell you a funny story about that. You know…

HH: It’s amazing.

LA: At Hillsdale College, we put on plays. We have a very good drama department, and you know, when I first came, I wandered around. I was alone, and I wandered around, and I went into the building where the drama is. It’s a very nice building. And you know, I wanted to make sure that plays are not dirty, which modern plays tend to be. And so I’m looking around, and I see that they’re unpacking some crates, and they got fancy lights in them. And then a man, a really great man who’s just retired, came by, and I said what are these? And he said well, these are our new lighting. And I said I’ll bet that’s expensive. And he said it is. And I said huh. He said, what do you think? And I said I’m thinking you need things from me. And he said yeah, we do.

HH: (laughing)

LA: And I said how are the plays? (laughing)

HH: (laughing) And there you have Article I and Article II right there.

LA: So there you go. There you go.

HH: That’s called oversight of the appropriation process, isn’t it?

LA: (laughing)

HH: Now what is so hard? Where did we go wrong? I mean, it’s a serious question. People are mad at me, because I’m opposing the President’s $1.8 billion not because it isn’t an emergency, but because I don’t think you write blank checks to presidents who have a record of not doing anything with the money you’ve given them.

LA: That’s right. And also, details, right? That’s what legislation, you know, Obama loves, and this is modern liberalism in general, Obama loves to pull the panic button. Out in California years ago, you may remember that, you knew him, Mike Roos…

HH: Oh, sure.

LA: …was a very important legislator.

HH: Sure.

LA: And so he, there was the Southern California Association of Philanthropy roundtable, and I ended up debating this Mr. Roos, because Mr. Roos gave a speech to these philanthropists about how we, there was a shooting in a restaurant, and we rallied and used the news of that to ram through a bill. And he just gave this really great speech about how gun control came out of this crisis. And so he wasn’t ready for me, and so I read out loud, my speech was, I read out loud three passages from the Federalists about how the spirit of the legislature is deliberation.

HH: Oh, my gosh.

LA: How there’s not, the reason we have two bodies in the legislature is they’re supposed to think, and then it takes both of them to think. And then that makes sure that we take enough time to know. And I read that all out to him, and I’ll bet you money he’d never heard it before. It was like I was reading from the Moon.

HH: No.

LA: And I said tell me, I said Mr. Roos, do you make better decisions when you hurry, or when you deliberate?

HH: Oh, my.

LA: (laughing) There we are, see? So that’s the thing. This $1.8 billion dollars will go to and through the executive branch, and it’s just a big whacking bill. You know, the other day, somebody came, you tell me, you asked me about a million dollars, somebody came and wanted $1.5 million to do something that if it works, it’s really great. And I said $1.5 million, and they said yeah. And I said okay, tell me about that. And you know, it emerged that he wasn’t ready to tell me about this, yet.

HH: Oh, oh that’s not a good, not a good…

LA: And I said come on back when you’re ready.

HH: Not a good strategy. Now let me tell you about the problem of billionaires. There’s a story from this week. I talked to a number of my guests about it. Tiny spaceships will be blasted by laser beams from Earth to explore our nearest star system 25 trillion miles away. This is a plan cooked up by Yuri Milner, a Russian internet billionaire, Stephen Hawking, and Mark Zuckerberg. And they’re going to put $100 million dollars into creating a whole bunch of these tiny, little spacecraft that are about a meter long, and they’ve got light sails on them, and they move at 130 million miles per hour, which is a fifth of the speed of light, and we’re going to bombard the Alpha Centauri, the nearest star system, with these things. And I, in my mind, you know, I’m thinking about 20 years from now some planet in the Alpha Centauri’s going to be bombarded by these little space machines and they’re going to be mad at us. Isn’t that just a giant waste of money, in your view?

LA: Well, what I think about this is it’s their money (laughing)

HH: Okay, it is, it’s admittedly, it’s not illegal.

LA: No. Yeah, well, you know, I don’t know. You know, everybody, we all do this. Hugh, I’ve heard you do it, right? You catch the adventure of science, right? And so the government, when the government wasted money in the past, it wasted money, you know, science and building bridges, right? Now, we waste money paying bureaucrats.

HH: Well, you’re absolutely right, but what could you do with $100 million? I gave a group of philanthropists a speech this week in which I suggested seven things they could do with their money, and one of them was build a building at Hillsdale, because you could be guaranteed that the students who walked out of it would be prepared to lead. What could you do with $100 million dollars?

LA: Well, I can actually answer that question specifically. I could make the college safer, I could build my graduate school in Washington, D.C, I could finish my chapel. You know, I mean, there’s a list right now.

HH: There’s a list. There are people who know what to do with $100 million dollars. We don’t have to send little, tiny spaceships, a fleet of things of space litter in, it just makes me crazy, waste does. I’ll be right back with Dr. Larry Arnn. The Hillsdale Dialogue continues. We’ve got to talk about, of course, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Paul Ryan and more. Stay with us.

— – – —

HH: He is very good friends with the Speaker of the House of Representatives, a Constitutional office, Paul Ryan. Paul Ryan joined me a week ago on Monday to say he was not running for president. And Dr. Arnn, earlier this week on Wednesday, he said this, cut number two:

PR: It is really amazing how our politics is followed so closely overseas. I was asked about it everywhere I went. I’m also aware that while I was overseas, there was more speculation that someone other than the current candidates will emerge as our party’s nominee. I want to put this to rest once and for all. As you know, I have stayed out of this race, and I have remained neutral. As chairman of the Republican convention, my job is to ensure that there is integrity in the process that the rules are followed by the rulebook. That means it is not my job to tell delegates what they should do. But I’ve got a message to relate today. We have too much work to do in the House to allow this speculation to swirl, or to have my motivations questioned. So let me be clear. I do not want, nor will I accept, the nomination for our party. So let me speak directly to the delegates on this. If no candidate has a majority on the first ballot, I believe that you should only choose from a person who has actually participated in the primary. Count me out. I simply believe that if you want to be the nominee for our party to be the president, you should actually run for it. I chose not to do this. Therefore, I should not be considered, period, end of story. I just think it would be wrong to go any other way. So let me say again. I am not going to be our party’s nominee.

HH: He was not finished, though, Dr. Larry Arnn. He went on to say this, cut number three.

PR: But also be clear about something else. Not running does not mean I’m going to disappear.

HH: Which brings to mind this wonderful excerpt from Dumb and Dumber, cut number four:

JC: So you’re telling me there’s a chance?

LA: (laughing)

JC: Yeah!

HH: (laughing) What do you think, Larry Arnn?

LA: Yeah, well, you know, Abraham Lincoln never ran for president. And first of all, isn’t he great? I mean, he’s such a fine man. You know, I know that lots of people have disagreements with him about this and that. I have one or two myself. But he’s such a fine guy. And those statements are high-minded and meant, very much, in my opinion. But second, they make people want him more.

HH: Yes, they do. Yes, they do. Now I was asked by Larry O’Donnell on The Last Word on MSNBC on Wednesday night to comment about that. And here is that exchange.

LO’D: Hugh, I have fought the Paul Ryan tries to grab the nomination story. It has never made sense to me, because it seems very clear that if Paul Ryan were to do that, he would be doing it in a world of Republican disaster where he would know that it would be impossible for him to win the White House through that route.

HH: Well, that’s the 20th time, according to the Washington Post, that Paul Ryan has said he is not running for president, the 19th time was on my radio show last Monday. But I point out, Lawrence, nobody knows what’s going to happen in Cleveland. Godzilla could come out of Lake Erie and step on the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame. We really, the Browns could have a good draft. Anything could happen this summer in Cleveland. We can’t rule anything out. If, in fact, we get gear grinding, if we get deadlock, and you’ve got Donald Trump, who is the frontrunner, and that was a good radio ad that you played earlier, a very powerful ad, if he’s at 1050, and Ted Cruz is at 875, and John Kasich is hanging around at 400-500, and on your third or your fourth ballot you’ve got the wheels are locked up and smoke’s coming out of everybody’s ears, you start looking around for who can step into that. And if not immediately pass former Secretary of State Clinton, at least have a credible campaign in the fall. Everybody thinks Speaker Ryan.

HH: Okay, Larry Arnn, 30 seconds to the break. You agree with my assessment?

LA: It’s, I think that’s you at your best, because by the way, that is exactly the process by which he became Speaker of the House.

HH: Yup. Yup. And so people ought not, he can be very, very sincere, and he can also change his mind. Those are not inconsistent things.

LA: Yeah, exactly right, and see, the circumstances have to, if we’re facing a disaster, that’s why he became Speaker.

HH: Because we were facing a disaster. More with Dr. Larry Arnn. The Hillsdale Dialogue continues. Don’t go anywhere, America.

— – — –

HH: Dr. Arnn, it was not a quiet week on the political front. Donald Trump made sure that it wasn’t. After he was roundly defeated in Colorado, he took to the hustings in New York, Ted Cruz having won 37 out of 37 delegates, and this is what Donald Trump said to a rally, cut number 22:

DT: This is a dirty trick, and I’ll tell you what. The RNC, the Republican National Committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen. I can tell you that. They should be ashamed of themselves, because it has nothing to do with democracy. They took the votes away from the people in Colorado. You’ve got to show the Republican Party that they can’t get away with this stuff any longer.

HH: Then followed Ted Cruz on with Glenn Beck, cut numbers 23 and 24, number 23 first.

TC: This is real simple. Donald is a very sore loser. He doesn’t handle losing well, and he throws a fit. He is crying and screaming and yelling, and he insults people, and he curses at people, and he attacks people when he loses. He behaves like a child, as Anderson Cooper pointed out, like a five year old.

GB: Like a 5 year old.

TC: And the simple reality is in the last three weeks, there have been 11 elections in four states across the country. And we have beaten Donald Trump in all 11 elections. Donald is panicking. He is scared. You know, Donald loves to call people a loser. Donald wakes up at night in cold sweats that people will call him Losin’ Donald. That is his ultimate fear. And every time the voters reject him, and they’ve now done so in 11 elections, starting in Utah, 69% of the voters, we won a landside there, got every one of the delegates. Then in North Dakota, a very different state, they had their convention, they elected their delegates. Of the declared delegates, we won 18, Donald won 1. Then Wisconsin, the media said Wisconsin was a perfect state for Donald Trump. They said Cruz could not win in Wisconsin. It’s an upper Midwest state, industrial state, not a very large Evangelical population, it was blue collar, working-class state. The day before the election, Glenn, Donald boldly predicted a “big victory” in Wisconsin.

HH: So Dr. Arnn, I would say we are both living in Switzerland. We observe the combatants, that Senator Cruz has gotten under Mr. Trump’s skin.

LA: Well, they’re very different kinds of people. Ted Cruz is very cool under fire. Have you noticed that?

HH: Very.

LA: All the way through. Have you ever seen him lose his temper? And what he comes back with, what we just heard there, that was an argument, right? A bunch of facts in it, and he’s like that. And he is, you know, he’s a remarkable man. Trump is a remarkable man, too. But they’re different, very different kinds of remarkable men. And think of what’s latent in that dispute. First of all, the Republican Party is a political party. It’s a private organization. It’s actually de-centralized in its government. It can do what it wants to, to nominate a president. It’s had many ways of doing it. It has many ways of doing it in this election. And the check on that being an abuse is that come November, people are going to vote. And so they’re, you know, they’re doing what they can to make, Colorado is doing what it can to make itself influential at the convention. And first or second on the list is try to win in November. So to cry out it’s not democracy is not quite the argument you’d want to make right now.

HH: Ted Cruz went on to explain what happened in Colorado specifically, cut number 24.

TC: And the next day, he got shellacked. We won another landslide, 48% of the vote, beat him by 13 points. And then Colorado, you know, the temper tantrum that Donald is throwing over Colorado is really ridiculous, because they didn’t just have one election. They had eight elections in Colorado. They had one in each of the seven Congressional districts, and then they had a statewide convention. I was at the convention. 6,000 people at the convention were packed in there and voted statewide. In the eight elections, Donald Trump lost all eight. They elected 34 delegates. We won all 34. Now part of the reason Donald lost is he didn’t show up. I went and spoke at the convention. I went and asked the voters for their votes. Donald was supposed to go, but he cancelled, because he realized he was going to lose, that he didn’t have the support in Colorado, so he ran away scared. And now, he’s just making up nonsense. Do you know how many people voted in the state of Colorado? 65,000 people voted. He’s screaming about stealing elections. 65,000 people voted. They just didn’t vote for Donald. They voted for our campaign instead, and Donald can’t handle it. He’s scared, and so his response is just to whine and cry and attack and complain.

HH: Now again, pretty devastating counterattack. We can say that as neutrals. We can observe efficacy and when someone scores. It’s like calling a basketball game. That was a three pointer.

LA: Yeah, and you know, the party, the Republicans, Cruz’ case is Republicans favor him. When Republicans vote in caucuses and in purely Republican primaries, he wins. That’s his case. I would add something that he should very much be thinking about. And I have told him this myself, and not being for him, not endorsing anybody, right? But the most interesting thing about Donald Trump, I mean, there are many interesting things about Donald Trump, and good things. But the most interesting thing about him is the people voting for him. And there’s a lot of them, and a lot of them are coming into the Republican Party from outside. And everybody who wants to be president of the United States on the Republican ticket should be thinking about them, and how they get them to vote for them in November, because I think it’s true that first of all, I know this is true. It’s an enormous indicator that Republican participation in the primaries is way up, and Democrats are down, and that’s a tremendous indicator for November. So the big task for the Republicans is to unite that vote. And if they can do that, I think they’re going to win in November. And they will do it likely through an incredible mess, but they can win. They just need to put all those votes together somehow. And everybody should be thinking about that.

HH: Now on Tuesday night, Anderson cooper interviewed Donald Trump and his family. He asked a question of Ivanka Trump, the very successful executive in the Trump Organization, just gave birth to her third child, overseeing the opening on time and under budget, actually early, of the new Trump Tower, the renovated old Post Office in Washington, D.C. Here’s what Ivanka said to Anderson Cooper on Tuesday night, cut number 14?

AC: Ivanka, what have you said to him about being presidential?

IT: Well, I think that one of the interesting things about this process is it’s very easy to have an opinion on things. But when you’re not in the arena, it’s, you know, it’s a different ballgame. So I’ve definitely said things of that kind to him, but I also then watch these debates, and it’s a hard thing to observe, because I see them, it’s like a cage match. You know, they’re jumping on him, and they’re hitting him from the left, hitting him from the right. Everyone’s attacking him, because he’s been the frontrunner for so long. It’s, he’s the man to take down. So while I do sometimes tell him to withhold that sort of fire, I also understand it, and I think it’s instinct. And I think it also speaks to his passion. And I think that’s ultimately what we need. I mean, you have to have tremendous stamina to get through this process. You have to have a fire and a passion. I don’t think you can be particularly laid back and make it through this whole experience, from what I’ve observed, especially when you’re competing against many very qualified people who are quite upset by the fact that you’ve logged past them.

HH: So Dr. Larry Arnn of Hillsdale College, what does it say about a candidate that he produces a child so eloquent and so obviously competent?

LA: Yeah. By the way, isn’t she great?

HH: Yes.

LA: I’ve heard you say that before, and that was splendid, what she just said. And you know, about Trump, I watch for this carefully. Where are the people for Trump in their droves coming out to tell what a bad man he is? There aren’t any. And then his family, I mean, it is true his marriages, there are many, but it’s also true that these children are awesome. And you know, I think Donald Trump is a good and honest man. And I have concluded that, whereas when all this started, I thought he was just a showboat. And I think he’s probably a very effective executive, and a good father.

HH: That is true. Now what about policy? Here’s what he said himself on Tuesday night to Anderson Cooper, cut number 11.

AC: Your campaign has been saying, I think it was last week, they started saying you were going to start putting out some very specific policy pronouncements.

DT: But I have on tax, on tax. I have on many…

AC: You’re going to be making some policy speeches in particular.

DT: I’m going to start doing that, yes.

AC: When is that going to start?

DT: I did. I did one at AIPAC…

AC: Right.

DT: …about, concerning Israel, and it was met with raves. You even said it was good. But I did one on, I’m going to be doing probably ten over the next two months, a lot of them.

AC: Do you know when the next one’s going to be and what the topic is going to be?

DT: I would say over the next week.

AC: Do you know what the topic will be?

DT: We’re looking at different topics. We’re looking at unity, as an example, one topic I want to discuss. It might not be policy, but I want to talk about unity in the Republican Party, because I think it’s very important. But we’re going to be talking about the military. We’re going to be talking about NATO.

AC: You really think you can bring…

DT: You know, when I talked about NATO last week, Wolf Blitzer asked me the question, what about NATO. Now I’ve been building buildings all my life and doing deals all my life. But I know about NATO, and I said it’s obsolete, and we’re spending too much, and everyone’s ripping us off. You have 28 countries…

HH: Dr. Arnn, is that sufficient?

LA: Well, we don’t know. Let’s hear the speeches. And they’d better come soon. You know, what’s happened in the last month, let’s say, about that time, is that this has turned into a dogfight, right? And what it was, was a Trump procession before that. And one of the reasons it’s turned into a dogfight is the energy and drive and adaptability of Ted Cruz. And so in one way, this is just like a football game, right? What’s the 4th quarter going to be like, and who’s going to have the energy and drive and imagination to figure this out and break the key? And Trump is trying to adapt, too, and he has been, you know, brilliant. So I think we’ve got, in the front, two really serious people running for president.

HH: We are in the 3rd quarter. It’s my only quarrel. We’ll come back and talk about this, through the end of the California primary on June 7th, when the 3rd quarter, the 4th quarter is from June 8th through the conclusion of the Republican convention. More with Dr. Larry Arnn when we return to the Hugh Hewitt Show.

— – —

HH: I should add that your friend and mine, Mark Levin, launched a television network. And on that television network, it’s a closed circuit network, he invited Senator Marco Rubio, who came on Tuesday. and on Tuesday, Senator Rubio, without using the E word, endorsement, effectively endorsed Ted Cruz. What do you make of that? And of courses, he did in Mark’s studio. Mark is a full-throated backer of Ted Cruz. Is that more evidence of the consolidation of conservatism around Cruz, Dr. Arnn?

LA: Oh, yeah, and you know, there’s some wide consolidation of Republican leadership and conservative leadership for sure around Cruz, and that’s a big thing from Rubio, because those guys have sparked, Cruz and Rubio have sparked at each other a lot. And you know, kudos for Mark Levin for drawing him out. And it is important. It’s like, it’s got some relationship to the Scott Walker endorsement in Wisconsin, which you predicted would be important, and it looks like it was very important.

HH: So do you see the possibility of a Cruz-Rubio ticket? And if such a ticket were to emerge out of the embers of Cleveland, and it will not be without conflict there, but just go with me for a moment. Is that a potentially realigning ticket in the way that Trump is potentially a realigning ticket?

LA: Oh, yeah. Rubio has enormous popular appeal of an immediate kind that the others, whether at least Cruz may not have as much of, right? I mean, Rubio was everybody’s favorite. Everybody thought Rubio is the guy who can win the general election. How many people who are policy and polling experts told me that all summer long last summer? And you know, just testing him against, you know, so that would be a very strong ticket. And Cruz is relentless, right? Cruz is, he’s an extremely talented man. He’s very smart. And Lord, does he not play hard and well? And he keeps his temper. So I think he’s emerged, you know, because of that. I don’t think it’s accident, but I think Rubio remains a very attractive candidate. And yeah, that would be great.

HH: Meanwhile, Heidi Cruz, candidate Ted Cruz’ spouse, had this to say to Megyn Kelly this week, cut number eight:

MK: Recently, Donald Trump sent out an unkind retweet about you, comparing your appearance unfavorably to that of his wife, Melania Trump, who is a retired model. How did that retweet first come to your attention?

HC: Well, one great thing about me, Megyn, is I don’t tweet, so I had an ability to completely ignore it. And you know, I think we have a pattern of behavior here that when Donald Trump is falling behind, you know, it’s interesting the timing of that was right before Ted’s sweep, sweeping victory in Utah.

MK: Yeah, but that’s a dodge.

HC: Yeah.

MK: I’m wondering whether, like who told you about it, and how it made you feel?

HC: You and Carly, my dear friend, Carly, and myself have been the object of some of Donald’s criticisms. But I will tell you it, I know why we’re running this race, and it’s not for Donald Trump. It’s for the voters of this country. And when you have a husband who’s standing by you that is so strong and so unflappable, it really gives me a lot of strength. And so I really have to honestly say it didn’t impact me in the least. I have one job on this campaign, and that is to get out and tell the voters who Ted Cruz is. And when telling the truth about who your husband is, is your job, it’s pretty easy, and it’s been great for our marriage. So because I don’t tweet, because I know what my job is on the campaign, and because I know that every time the Trump campaign starts to lose they throw in distractions of personal destruction…

HH: Sharp, that response, Dr. Arnn.

LA: You know, this campaign, in my opinion, is great. I’ve been saying it, Cruz versus Trump, and Kasich’s still in. But Ivanka versus Heidi?

HH: I know.

LA: That might be, that would be colossal.

HH: The undercard is very, very good.

LA: Isn’t it, though?

HH: And so I am not convinced that Cleveland will be a disaster. It will be confrontational, it will be sparky, to use a term you used earlier. There may be Black Lives Matter on one side of the fence, and disappointed candidate supporters on another side of the fence. But I’m not at all clear that that isn’t superior to the Yasgur’s Farm Woodstock replay of Bernie Sanders, and the dullest candidate in the history of the republic, Hillary Clinton.

LA: Yeah, you know, I do not despair. I think that turning around the country is such a big job, and it’s bound to be messy and controversial. And we’ve got two guys fighting for that right now, and Kasich, too, would be, is an excellent candidate. And so that’s good. And you go into the convention like that, and then the party, in its heart and imagination and mind, has got to find a way to put all of this support that it’s getting together by November. And if it does that, it’s going to win, I think.

HH: And if it does win, things will change for the better, significantly.

LA: That’s right. You know, these are all people. Do you not believe, I mean, just listen to the debates, do you not believe that Ted Cruz or Donald Trump are likely to do what they say?

HH: Absolutely the key question. The answer is yes, and the Hillsdale Dialogue will return next week. Thank you, Dr. Larry Arnn. www.hillsdale.edu.

End of interview.

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