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Hugh Hewitt Book Club

Dr. Larry Arnn on the Post-Election Divisions in America

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HH: So last night, I’m at the Yankee Institute. Lee Hanley is eulogized. We talk about this, and I come out and the news of General Mattis being appointed is great. And then last night at my alma mater, Harvard, they had a breakdown, a complete, utter explosion, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, yet, between Kellyanne Conway, David Bossie, Corey Lewandowski and the Clinton team. Have you heard any of this, yet?

LA: No, no.

HH: Oh, I’ve got to play for you a couple of cuts. This is the first cut. You’ve got to comment on this. Kellyanne Conway and Jennifer Palmieri, cut number one.

Moderator: To be candid with you, the guy is an unbelievably brilliant strategist who is brilliant, a terrific guy, who as Kellyanne just said, you know, a guy who has a Harvard pedigree, and is getting attacked by people who have no idea who he is, or…

Crosstalk – We don’t need to talk about the Harvard…

Crosstalk – Wait, hold on. Okay.

Crosstalk – I mean, we happen to be sitting here. But listen, he gets held to a standard that none of these, none of these other folks are held to.

Crosstalk – Well, let me, let me…

JP: If providing, Dan, if providing a platform for white supremacists makes me a brilliant tactician, I am glad to have lost. And when Hillary, give me a minute, David. When I am more proud of Hillary Clinton’s alt-right speech than any other moment on the campaign, because she had the courage to stand up.

KC: Wow.

JP: I would rather lose than win the way you guys did.

KC: No, you wouldn’t.

JP: Yes.

KC: No, you wouldn’t.

JP: Yes.

KC: That’s very clear today. No, you wouldn’t, respectfully. I’m sorry, how exactly did we win? No, go for it, Jenn. How exactly did we win? I’d like to know, because I sacrificed the last four months of my life to do it.

JP: This, I said…

KC: Excuse me, and we did it. And do you think…

Moderator: Thank you. Jenn…

KC: Excuse me, she said white supremacists. I’m sorry.

Moderator: Well, I’d actually like to follow up…

KC: I know it’s mentioned a lot on your website, too. Do you think I ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform You going to look me in the face and tell me that?

JP: It did. Kellyanne, it did.

KC: Really? That’s how you lost?

JP: It did.

KC: Do you think you could have just had a decent message for the white, working-class voters? You think this woman who has nothing in common with anybody…

JP: I’m not saying that’s why you won, but that’s how the campaign was run, yes.

KC: These counties we flipped, there are over 200 counties that President Obama won that Donald Trump just won. You think that’s because of what you just said or because people aren’t ready for a woman president? Really? How about it’s Hillary Clinton. She doesn’t connect with people.

HH: What do you think, Dr. Arnn. This was a meltdown. It went on for an hour and a half, and it got worse. I’ll play you another cut. What do you think of that?

LA: Well, I think that they don’t fully agree.

HH: (laughing)

LA: (laughing)

HH: That is it. That’s all. They don’t fully agree.

LA: You know, they don’t agree about things. If, so what I think is a lot of this stuff reminds me to the lead up to the Civil War. And you know, I don’t mean to say that we’re going to have a civil war, and I don’t mean that anybody here is pro-slavery, except that is the specific allegation we just heard, isn’t it?

HH: Yes, it is.

LA: So…

HH: You just, you did not hear the first hour or the second hour of the show. And Van Jones joined me.

LA: Oh, man.

HH: And that is the specific allegation. Let me play for you a couple of cuts of Van Jones and I last hour talking about last night at Harvard, cut number three, I think.

HH: When you talk to Trump supporters, do you think they’re white supremacists? Do you really believe, you and I sit together in green rooms, we’re friendly, we would be friends if we spent more time together. Do you really believe those people in Trumbull County are white supremacists who voted for Trump?

VJ: Let me finish my point. I’m going someplace. I told you both parties have problems they won’t admit, and you just did it. The Democrats will not admit to their elitism, and their failure to address the working-class in this country in terms that makes sense. The Republicans are the party of colorblind meritocracy. That’s their party.

HH: That’s true.

VJ: And that’s beautiful. But they have also created a space for a bunch of bigots to come in the back door, and they won’t admit it.

HH: That is not true. Van…

VJ: Okay, hold on.

HH: What percentage, what percentage do you believe of the Trump vote is white supremacist? What percentage?

VJ: Like alt-right, we hate black people?

HH: Yes. White supremacists.

VJ: Probably less than 1%.

HH: So Dr. Arnn…

LA: Yeah.

HH: I did get, I elicited an admission against interest there. But it gets worse, but they are now waging this war, this rhetoric on the victory won by Donald Trump to delegitimize it, and to avoid what it means.

LA: Well, the, that’s right, to delegitimize the election, that’s what all this stuff about the Electoral College and the popular vote is about. But it’s, I mean, so, and then that ties into this argument, then, that a bunch of people who are un-American, all of the deplorables understand, right, I mean, isn’t it an amazing thing…

HH: Yeah.

LA: …for a presidential candidate to say of the people, right? And so yeah, that’s right. The point is Hillary Clinton’s supporters do not look upon the Trump campaign or movement or phenomenon as legitimate part of American politics.

HH: That’s exactly right, yeah.

LA: And so that’s why it’s like the Civil War. And what Van Jones said, who by the way, seems to me like a pretty good guy.

HH: He is.

LA: You know, he loses control of himself, and that’s why he seems like a pretty good guy. He really thinks what he’s saying, right?

HH: Yes. He’s sincere. He’s authentic.

LA: What he just said is you’re not a white supremacist, but you’ve made a space for it. Well, what can one do except denounce that thing, right?

HH: Which I did.

LA: White supremacy is a bad thing. And that’s because color supremacy of all kinds is a bad thing. And if you denounce it, then how can you be culpable for making a space for it?

HH: I don’t know. In fact, let’s play cut number two. This is more Van Jones. Oh, we don’t have time. We’ll do it after the break. But Dr. Arnn, what is going on in the post-election conversation at Harvard last night, with Van Jones with me this morning on his special on Tuesday night, is an attempt to paint with this brush the Trump victory, even as he goes to Indiana and Cincinnati yesterday to talk about jobs in a depressed era. It’s like a disconnected, and I don’t believe it’s Civil Warrish, because it’s not a 50/50 issue. It’s not even a close to being a 90/10 issue. What they’re arguing is an opinion held by, I think sincerely, less than 5% of the country.

LA: Yeah, so I’m going to get, I’m doing an interview with the New Yorker, of all things, this morning. What am I doing today?

HH: Oh, my goodness.

LA: But they want to, like I think they want to ask me about somebody named Spencer, and so I don’t know who that is. And so I looked him up. And I find out that he’s some young fool, apparently, if what you read about him on the internet is true, that he and his supporters gave a Hitler salute to Donald Trump.

HH: Yeah, in the Ronald Reagan Commerce building. We talk about this with Van Jones. They had 200 people there. That was all.

LA: Yeah.

HH: And they are extrapolating from that to the land of Lincoln. I just, I sometimes I’m amazed by what we hear.

— – – – —

VJ: The Republicans are the party of colorblind meritocracy. That’s their party.

HH: That’s true.

VJ: And that’s beautiful. But they have also created a space for a bunch of bigots to come in the back door. And they won’t admit it.

HH: That is not true. Van…

VJ: Okay, hold on.

HH: What percentage, what percentage do you believe of the Trump vote is white supremacist? What percentage?

VJ: Like alt-right, like we hate black people?

HH: Yes, white supremacists.

VJ: Probably less than 1%.

HH: Thank you.

VJ: So, but let me…

HH: It’s way less than 1%.

VJ: Now, but, but, you’re doing, I’m, you’re doing exactly what the Democrats do. The Democrats, when I tell them as an honest person, I know your values, but you have some people in your party who are betraying those values, they will not listen. And then with Republicans, I know your values. I know your heart, and I know you. But as an outsider looking at it, you do have a problem where the vast majority of Republicans are not racists. But you have racists have come into your party. And you’re more angry at people like me for pointing it out than you are at these alt-right…

HH: No, I’m not.

VJ: White supremacists…

HH: I have, Van, I’m 60. I have spent my whole life with Ronald Reagan and the party of Lincoln driving those people out. And we will continue to drive those people out. But if they cling like barnacles to your party, all you can do is denounce them.

HH: Dr. Larry Arnn is my guest on the Hugh Hewitt Show. That’s all you can do, Larry Arnn. That’s it.

LA: Yeah, yeah, and it’s a little bit, so think of the know-nothing party. That’s a bunch of people who didn’t like Catholics and didn’t like Jews and didn’t like slavery, because it was black people, and there might be more of them if there was slavery. And so those people voted for Lincoln, and a lot of them did. Lincoln never said a word about them, except a denunciatory word, right? But he won the election. And then what happened? He got rid of slavery. And so the point, the problem with what Van Jones said, and who I’ll repeat, by the way, he cried on Election Night on CNN, and that made me think he really believe the things that he was saying, right? And he’s not, in other words, it wasn’t just calculated. He wasn’t just slandering people or denouncing people lightly. But the truth is, what’s wrong with what he just said is that people are responsible only for what they do, right? And you can’t hold them responsible for things they don’t do. And that, and so he’s, the Republican Party, you interrupted him. He was about to say, I think, is he said the Republican Party is the party of colorblind meritocracy, and I think he might have meant that as a denunciation.

HH: Yes, yes he did. I’ve got to play for you…

LA: Which you were quick and intervened and said that’s right. And he said that’s beautiful. I don’t think that’s what his point was.

HH: He was not going there, but I am happy to claim colorblind meritocracy, because that’s Dr. Martin Luther King’s words. That’s Lincoln’s words.

LA: Yeah.

HH: That’s the Declaration of Independence. Let me play you one more Van Jones cut, Dr. Arnn. Here it is.

VJ: For you, it’s not that big a deal that only 1% of the people in your party are…

HH: Less than 1%, way, way less than 1%. There are not, that’s 600,000, 60 million people voted for Donald Trump.

VJ: Well, why is that so important to you? Why is it more important for you to say that? Now you’ve said that six times, sir, and I’m trying to tell you something, and you’re not listening to me.

HH: Because it’s not factually predicated. There is not, there are not 600,000 white racists in America. They put on a party at the Reagan building, and got 200 people, Van.

VJ: No, well, first of all, that’s just factually incorrect, what you just said, not about the Reagan Library. But the Southern Poverty Law Center is pointing out, please stop doing what you’re doing, sir. The Southern Poverty Law Center is screaming, saying there is a big rise now in these neo-Nazi groups, and not just in the United States, but across the West.

HH: Van, the Southern Poverty Law Center almost got people killed. They are themselves a hate-sponsoring group.

VJ: What?

HH: They almost got people killed in Washington, D.C.

VJ: What are you talking about?

HH: The Southern Poverty Law Center is an extremist group.

HH: And Dr. Arnn, he did not know. I don’t think he actually knew that the Family Research Council was targeted by a killer because they were put on the website by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group.

LA: As a hate group, yeah, yeah.

HH: And it’s the Family Research Council.

LA: And they’re responsible for that.

HH: They are.

LA: They are responsible for that, and that, you know, Van, so in this way that we do politics today, the whole, so it’s worth stating, what is the principle behind colorblind meritocracy? The color of the skin of a human being is not an essential attribute of the human being. Reason, good character, moral and intellectual virtues, those are, and those are spread among the righteous.

HH: We are coming back to that key. It’s a question of character, not color.

— – – —

HH: Dr. Arnn, yesterday, Donald Trump gave two speeches – one in Cincinnati, one in Indianapolis, both, one saying we will build a more inclusive America, another saying we’re going to keep jobs here. Then he announced in the second speech that General James Mattis would be his Secretary of Defense. Then, a brawl broke out at Harvard last night. Extraordinary times. An aside – what do you make of bringing Mattis, who is a distinctive American archetype, to the forefront of his administration?

LA: Well, your friend and mine, Tom Cotton, was considered for that job, and that was my favorite, because I know him and I don’t know General Mattis. But Tom Cotton told me that General Mattis is a very great American.

HH: Yup.

LA: And so I’ll be the appointment is super. And apparently, he is a very tough-talking guy of just the kind that politicians don’t like among generals.

HH: Exactly the case. He is Grant. I intend to fight on this line if it takes all summer, right?

LA: Yeah.

HH: That’s what Grant said when he began the Wilderness Campaign.

LA: That’s right.

HH: And that’s what Trump wanted, and that is not the sign of an insecure man. That’s an interesting thing about these cabinet pics – Betsy DeVos, who unfortunately was not my first choice for the Secretary of Education, but is a very good choice.

LA: Yeah, excellent.

HH: My first choice, I’m talking to. But that is, we are not always happy with the choices, but they are, in collective, terrific. They’re terrific.

LA: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, the direction of the thing, and you know, I have some account now of what it’s like to go talk to Donald Trump. I’ve met him one time in my life. I hadn’t talked to him. But apparently, he’s quick as a cat, he’s very direct, he’s not a bully at all. Everybody that I know who’s talked to Trump in the last month just got, since the election, has got his socks charmed off, right? But above all, it’s serious and smart and right to the point. And I hear that the appointees that he’s making so far, he’s telling them you’ve got to go pick your people. And if you want us to pick them, we will, but you’re going to have to run this thing. Well, that’s the first principle of good management.

HH: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. He’s stood up a lot of executive teams. That’s what he’s doing, and that’s what you do, right, at the college?

LA: Yeah.

HH: That’s what you do.

LA: That’s right, and you know, you work with the people, and you trust them, and they don’t regard their territory as their territory. They regard it as our territory. But they’re in charge of it, right? And that way, information flows, and it can be shared, and all of that.

HH: This is why I was not surprised, Dr. Arnn, when he sat down with Mitt Romney, nor was I surprised that Mitt Romney sat down with him, and they both put aside, as did Lincoln when he brought in Chase, I think Chase probably said the hardest things about Lincoln in the campaign of 1860 before the Chicago Wigwam. Am I correct about that? Was Chase the most dismissive of Lincoln?

LA: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, also, Chase was a jackass.

HH: Yes, he was. Well, Romney is not, but I’m just pointing out…

LA: That’s right.

HH: …that Chase was just a really terrible person, and then Lincoln said you, there, come run my Treasury Department.

LA: Yeah, that’s right, and they never, and you know, they never got on. And Lincoln put him on the Supreme Court, partly to get rid of him, I think. But he was, Lincoln was building a team, and he needed the strongest forces that wanted to keep the Union together, and he was a big enough man to attract them. And I think that’s the way Trump will be. Also, I noticed something, you know, walking. I’m in Washington, D.C. right now, and I noticed something on CNN, which I confess to watching sometimes. Yesterday, Trump had his first, this is the title at the bottom of CNN, his first post-election rally. And so what does that mean? First, that means it’s an institution now.

HH: Oh, it is.

LA: Nobody ever…

HH: Oh, you’re right.

LA: Presidents don’t go have rallies, right, until it’s time for them to campaign again next time. But Trump is going to have rallies, and everybody’s adjusted to that. And so he’s going to go out and make his case to thousands and thousands.

HH: But are you worried about that, because you know what will follow. They will, you know, the word Nuremburg is on people’s lips at CNN in the back room. I don’t know that for a fact. I’m just guessing that. What will you say in response to that?

LA: I will say of course, it depends decisively on what he says at these rallies.

HH: Yes.

LA: And then I will go on and make a second point. And that is that in the very great and first English language biography of Adolf Hitler by Alan Bullock in the early 50s, he makes the point that after 1942, Hitler didn’t have any more rallies. And the reason, he says, it’s one of the profoundest points in the book, is that Hitler’s gift was to stand in front of a lot of people and understand what they were thinking. And after 1942, Hitler could not bear to face them anymore.

HH: Oh, how interesting. And so when…

LA: And so…

HH: When Trump’s rallies stop, he will have lost his political, if the President-Elect loses his connection with the people that elected him, there will not be rallies?

LA: That’s what I think, yeah. Yeah, and I don’t, and see, another thing is it matters so much what he says. And you know, he, I don’t agree with everything he says. But I do not believe that it is either despotic or racist, and if it is, then I am against it.

HH: And last, yesterday, he said we will build the most inclusive country ever, the most inclusive. That is so opposite of what people attribute to him, so opposite.

LA: And see, his, like one of the reasons, and see, I think this is probably not true of Van Jones, because I think he might be, I mean, I don’t agree with that man at all, but I think he’s probably a straight guy, right, you know, means what he says, feels it deeply.

HH: Yes.

LA: Anyway, there’s a way you’re supposed to talk about the inner city. And Republicans are good at that, because they want to be more inclusive, and they adopt a language, right? But, and they get too far away from this language that you have to treat everybody the same. And if there’s people who are underprivileged, and living in a terrible area where it’s crime and danger for everybody all the time, then the government ought to go try to fix that. But it shouldn’t try to fix it because of their color, right? It should try to fix it because they are human and American citizens. Well, Trump talks like that. And he’s been so aggressive about what he’s going to do about the inner city. And now, he’s appointed this radical school choicer, Secretary of Education, and he’s to do a bunch of charter schools in inner cities. Hillsdale College has got three right now. If you do a lot of those, and you let them, you know, and we think we know how to do them. We’re in that line of work, right? But a lot of them will be different from ours, and then they’ll find out ours are better, and then they’ll change. But he will be on a process of improvement, right? And that’s what you’ve got to go for, and Trump is all over that.

HH: Yeah, he is. Let me play for you, because it feeds perfectly into this, the distinction between the left and the right is, was articulated in the last hour with Van Jones and I, one more cut, the Cuba cut. Here we go.

VJ: If we had 1% of our party going around saying we hate all white people, you would be saying then…

HH: Van, you’ve got 1% of your party, more than 1%, praising Fidel Castro. Will you agree with me he was a tyrannical dictator mass murderer? Will you agree with me?

VJ: Well, can we talk about our own country first?

HH: But no, this is why…

VJ: No, hold on a second.

HH: …the 1% rule with the Democrats is a problem, and it’s not a problem. There are real Fidel lovers in your party. There aren’t a real number of racists in our party.

VJ: I don’t know, I don’t know any Fidel lovers in my party who are going around killing black people. And what we’ve had in this country, see, we live in different bubbles. Don’t forget, in this country in the past, you know, 12 to 18 months, a white supremacist went and killed 9 black people in a church.

HH: That’s true.

VJ: And that was a major blow in our community.

HH: That’s true.

VJ: And when that happens, and then you have a major party candidate retweeting white supremacists, that lands huge for us. It’s lands huge for us. And then you guys minimize it and minimize it. Please stop doing that.

HH: Dylan Roof is an evil man, and I can’t say that enough. I was on with the late Gwen Ifill the Sunday after that massacre occurred at Mother Emmanuel, and everybody agrees about that. But not everybody agrees, everybody who is normal agrees with you and I on that. But not everyone agrees that Fidel Castro is a murdering tyrant dictator.

VJ: Why are we talking about somebody’s else’s country.

HH: Yeah, and so Larry Arnn, I am proud of what the GOP really believes. I’m not sure that Van Jones is proud of what the Democrats really believe about Fidel.

LA: Yeah. It, if he can’t see that guy for what he is, then what can you see?

HH: And if you can’t say it quickly, if you can’t do what I did about Dylan Roof, which is Dylan Roof is evil, let’s move on.

LA: Yeah.

HH: Let’s get to the point. He can’t say that about Fidel, because more than 1% of the Democratic Party doesn’t believe it.

LA: Yeah, yeah. Isn’t that sad? And, but that, you know, we started with this point this morning. The political divide is very deep. And everybody was happy with the electoral system we had, everybody was willing to abide the electoral system we have had for 200-plus years involving the Electoral College when they thought Hillary was going to win.

HH: Exactly so.

LA: And you have to remember, and just remember about that, that it is one of the most rare and magical political feats to choose the executive by popular will, and then have the executive be strong enough to do the job, and yet still subject to the popular will. We talked about Hitler earlier, right? They got to vote for him one time. And then after that, votes didn’t matter anymore, right? And so this political system we have, which spreads authority across the whole country, and means that the people who live in cities have to talk to the people who live in the country, and vice versa, this political system is held now in complete contempt on the moral of an election where there person didn’t win, and that’s shameful.

HH: It is shameful, and when we come back from break, we’ve got to talk about this more, because I do think what you just brought up is the heart and soul of it. We are seeing George W. Bush, in real time, in your life and my life and in the lives of these conversations between us, we are seeing in real time the transfer of power from George W. Bush to Barack Obama, and from Barack Obama to Donald Trump, and not a shot is fired. And by the way, Donald Trump will lay down his office either by defeat in 2020 or after reelection in 2024 in the same path if nature does not intervene. And that is a glorious thing, Larry Arnn.

LA: It’s one of the greatest inaugural addresses, people should go read this, because the first, the inauguration is going to be on the west side of the Capitol looking at the National Mall, January 20th or whatever it is. And that happened for the first time in 1980 when Ronald Reagan was inaugurated. It’s always been on the east side before where there’s a big parking lot.

HH: Hold that thought, Dr. Arnn. We’re going to come back and tell them why that inaugural address matters so much.

—- – – – –

HH: Dr. Arnn, I have to add the meltdown is not just on the left. Last night, they had the meltdown at the Kennedy school. But before that, they had a dinner with 200 campaign operatives and journalists, and a panel that included Washington Post editor Marty Baron, AP editor Kathleen Carroll, Elliot Schrage, who’s the vice president of coms at Facebook, Sasha Issenberg was moderating, and Jeff Zucker was the target of all of these Republican operatives, including Carly Fiorina operatives and Marco Rubio operatives and Jeb and Ted Cruz operatives, and they were angry at him because of the alleged favoritism that he gave to Trump. So the right is also not reconciled to what happened. It’s not just the left.

LA: No.

HH: It’s really kind of a massive meltdown going on.

LA: Yeah, I’ve had, I’ve had, you know, of course, I have a lot of friends in what we refer to as the leadership of the conservative movement, of which I am supposed to be one.

HH: Yes.

LA: …a member. And I had somebody say are you worried about populism? And I said worried about it? Why? And they said well, mobs with pitchforks. And I said well, look, they’re on college campuses all the time right now. I haven’t seen anything like that at a Trump rally, you know. And that’s right. And see, just remember this. This is just simple political arithmetic, and it’s not dispositive, but it’s the starting place. If you think that the world is divided into two kinds of people, elite people and ordinary people, then you have to think that who’s going to save the country today is not elite people.

HH: Right.

LA: They turn out, they are the problem. You know, let’s say you and I, Hugh Hewitt, are members of the talking classes, right?

HH: Yes.

LA: That’s where the problem is. And you and I are a minority member. We’re minority members of the talking classes, right? but we’re outtalked by vast numbers who don’t agree with us, right?

HH: Yes, yes.

LA: But ordinary people, they have this claim. The first is their opinions are more solid than the opinions of the, you know, Bill Buckley said the first hundred names in the Boston telephone book than the Harvard faculty to govern me, please, right?

HH: Yes.

LA: But the second thing is under the principles of America, they have a right. That is to say the Constitutional majority must rule in America, and that’s the first way we guarantee our freedom.

HH: The Constitutional majority, which is the Electoral College.

LA: The Constitutional majority, that’s right.

HH: Yes.

LA: And…

HH: How are you going to educate your New Yorker person about that, and about Reagan’s inaugural address? I mean, you are facing a formidable challenge today. I’ve been profiled by the New Yorker. I’ve spoken to them before. It was many years ago. Nick Lehmann did it. And it was a fine piece, but they fact check everything, and you are not quick to make your point. You will require of them reason and argument. I’m not sure they’re prepared for that. How are you going to get all this into that?

LA: Ooh, I knew Nick Lehmann, too. Yeah, well, first of all, I will probably get across my central points unsuccessfully. (laughing)

HH: (laughing)

LA: But I don’t know. I expect the person is very intelligent. I am told that it’s a good person and a smart person, and not being hostile to me. And you know, if there’s a call about this to be hostile to me, they’re wasting their time, you know?

HH: But you know what’s interesting, Larry, is that they’re calling you in regards to the alt-right white supremacists. They’re not calling you in regards to what Hillsdale does, and that is the problem.

LA: Yeah, well, the New York Times is coming to do that next week, I gather. But you know, whether they want to do a profile of the college, won’t that be fun? But yeah, I’m glad…

HH: Oh, good Lord.

LA: And, but I think this person wants to talk to me about Trump, and you know, why I’m for Trump. I was for Trump after the primaries, after you and I got out of Switzerland.

HH: Right.

LA: And they want to talk about the conservative movement and Trump, right? I think that’s what the interview is about. I hope so.

HH: Oh, I hope that’s it. I hope it’s not about the alt-right…

LA: Yeah.

HH: …because that is such a small, tiny percentage of America. They are amplified online, but it is 200 people in the basement at the Reagan building.

LA: Yeah.

HH: Why do we talk about them as opposed to the people who were in Cincinnati and Indiana yesterday who didn’t go to that crazy, and don’t believe this evil stuff?

LA: I think that’s right. I mean, if, you know, first of all, Trump is, you know, I think, and I started reading his speeches, right? And what happened early in in the campaign was that when Trump talked about citizenship, that was conflated with racism, because he doesn’t think that people illegally in this country are citizens, and he doesn’t think they should be allowed to continue to break the law, or certainly not increasing numbers of them. And that is conflated. That means they’re not the same thing, but you pretend that they are, with racism.

HH: Right.

LA: And then, he makes explicit all the time that he doesn’t care about what color people are. And he, you know, and look at his cabinet, right? He’s got, I don’t think he has his Hispanic, yet, but he’s got his women, and he’s got his black person, and he’ll get more of those, I’ll bet, and all of that.

HH: It’s very diverse, but that’s not what he’s picking on.

LA: Yeah, yeah.

HH: I don’t believe that’s what he’s picking on.

LA: No, I hope not.

HH: I think he’s picking on change. I think he’s picking on transformation. Dr. Larry Arnn of Hillsdale College,, have a great week, and I will talk to you in two when I return from vacation.

End of interview.


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